|...and so does spelling and grammar|
While I have no intention of following in the footsteps of Aston Martin Andy, and by all accounts many others over the past few years, I was curious to see if I could find any reviews of the Bet Angel Courses out there. A Google search of "I attended one of Bet Angel's courses" led me to an interesting thread on the Geeks Toy forum, where many people had posted their thoughts on this topic.
Too many to repeat them all here, but the general thrust of opinion wasn't exactly positive. As in his Twitter conversations, Peter comes across as evasive, and sometimes frankly downright rude. One reviewer received no reply after asking what books he might look at to prepare for the course for example, others felt like questions during the course weren't welcome, and others were ignored after the course was over.
Lunch arrived and Peter sat down and was telling people how he and Adam Heathcote often ring each other to discuss how they were doing, which was different to the "we only share links" he claims on his site
There was one good review, but there were suspicions that the post was written in the style of PeeWee (aka Peter Webb).
Also, The Geek uncovered an interesting amendment to a post of PeeWee's which, as Peter tends to do it seems, brought to his mind the words pot, kettle and black.
PeeWee's initial post read:
How do we know this is PeeWee himself? Check out the spelling errors which, as errors from ignorance rather than innocent typos, tend to be repeated:
No less than 23 other posts on the Bet Angel forum contain this simple spelling mistake!
Anyway, after The Geek had pointed out the hypocrisy of PeeWee's comment, the post had "some rather subtle changes made to it".
No more being wary of systems promising "rewards for little effort" - paying for practical advice is now fine! Very subtle... At least Peter had the self-control to avoid writing "Paying up to £400 for practical advice is fine"! As The Geek concludes:
It's quite amusing to see the effect I have on Peter, and the lengths he goes to screw more money from people when it's already coming out of his ears.
Read the thread for yourselves, but some of the highlights for me are as follows:
rjmcgee : I've spoken to several traders who attended the course, none of them felt they got their money's worth at all. Despite being marketed to "experienced" traders it really only teaches the basics and little more. The book he hands out contains a few useful pages relating to soccer and tennis probabilities but the horse racing content is very poor, introductory level stuff that anyone should be able to figure out by themselves in their first few months of trading.
Scalper : Overall I would give the experience a 2/10 and one of those was for the curry I had at the hotel the night before.
Oldboy : From my experience I'd say...
1. As there were 20 people attending the course it wasn't particularly interactive and Peter doesn't create an environment where you feel you are able to ask questions throughout the day. (note: Saying you encourage questions and creating an environment that encourages questions are two very different things)
2. Nobody wants to give away their trading secrets, strategies and tactics to a room full of people so be prepared that you will only learn so much. During the day Peter clearly avoided answering certain questions to such an extent that it felt like everyone had given up bothering to ask anything by the end of the day.
3. The day is padded out with a number of anecdotes. We heard the ones about Peter's "Southampton relegation dream/premonition", "how he nearly won a football score prediction competition by predicting 1-1 for every game" and "how he has twice got 5 numbers plus the bonus ball on the lottery". (note: none of these little nuggets has made me a better trader despite having paid for the privilege of listening to them)
4. Three trading strategies are covered for pre-race trading and I'm pretty certain that most successful (and unsuccessful) traders that haven't attended the course will already be using these strategies. We were then told that it was harder to lose money on Betfair than it was to win it before Peter used one of his strategies to trade a race. (note: Peter must have been trying exceptionally hard that day as he proceeded to lose money on the race)
5. The day is further padded out by Peter showing trading videos which are available on his blog and YouTube etc.
6. Peter refers to the course on his website as a "Masterclass", with the definition of masterclass in the dictionary being "a seminar for advanced students conducted by a master". This is a gross misrepresentation as in reality the course is rather basic with Peter coming across as more of a salesman rather than an expert in his field.
In conclusion I'd say there's very little value to be had here. As others have said before there are a few pearls of wisdom but nothing that's worth £400, and probably nothing that you won't be able to find for free online. My advice would be to do something more worthwhile with your hard earned money. Use it as a trading bank, take the missus away for the weekend or treat the kids to something special. You'll feel better for it.
YoungTrader : sounds to me like peter is flirting with the point where he's scamming people.. you clearly get the impression you are going to learn something valuable for trading when you read the description on the website.
AlistairH : The issue with trading courses, particularly those given by software vendors from what I've read, tend to be more about learning how to use their software package rather than trading per se, understandably from the point of view of their business. However, it is generally the latter of the two that trading newbies want and consequently feel short changed when they realise they've received the former.
The Geek : There is a thread in general betting on the Betfair forums, Has anyone else noticed... It appears it's not only the Bet Angel forums where unfavourable comments about the course get pulled.
Wonder how long it will be before I get an email from the team of solicitors for letting everyone tell the truth on here.
It is quite amusing to see just how much time Peewee spends covering his tracks though, it would appear he has even gone to the lengths of getting the caches deleted on Google.
markyfarms : Course rating 5 outta 10
Pros: Big manual which does contain info which could take months of money/time to figure out on your own points you in the right direction as a beginner when there is so much info floating about filled my curiosity
Cons: He never showed us 1 live trade how he does it, even though he said he would
Cost - £400 for manual as he didn't show us anything the manual didn't tell you. No after support, I emailed him asking him a question which he also avoided on the course and I didn't hear back
Mullyman : I don't blame him for taking any angle to improve his lot and his business - thousands have done worse than he does. Being sneaky, sending snarly emails and using different aliases is nothing new and I'd probably do the same if my business was under a pressure it hadn't had to encounter before, competition from quality trading tools like the Toy.
rockaren : Some people seems to forget Mr PW is a seller, his mission is NOT to make YOU or other guys rich by selling trading secrets.Other than on PeeWee's sites, it's hard to find independently written positive reviews:
Spekkles: Well - I've taken the plunge.
They just announced 20th October is the last date for this year, so I've paid my £400 this morning, and gonna give it a try.
LATER: Well - attended this last week.
Overall - I have to admit, am disappointed.
First of all, you really need a good size bankroll to implement most of Peter's strategies
Eg......''this will work even with smaller stakes of £200 or £500'' - to me, that is not small stakes.
Not a lot of point going in with much less, as some of it involves forcing a price - and let's be honest, going in with 50 or 100, is not going to force a price.
On the course, there were a couple of people who had never traded or only been on Betfair a couple of times, and judging by the expression on their faces, I don't think they will benefit much from it.
I had a couple of points to ask after I left, and emailed Peter with questions - they appear not to be interested afterwards - they have your £400, and that is all that matters to them. (emails - although the original email came from Peter, they just go through to Bet Angel admin.
The best way to sum it up would be a sales pitch for Bet Angel.
I am doing no better now trading than I was before the course.
Pays your money - takes your chance.
LATER: Rather amusing update on this.
I received the following email from Bet Angel admin.
quote - We always welcome feedback of any kind. I would be interested to know what you thought of the course and the academy in general - unquote
So I registered for the bet angel forum, and basically said what I had said in here.
It was deleted within minutes.
Kinda backs up what I said in my opinion of the course really. There was nothing in that shouldn't be there, and was my honest opinion.It appears that many in the betting community share Spekkles' opinion.
I have emailed Peter Webb and told him how ridiculous it was that they ask for honest opinions then delete them. He has told me he will look into it, and get back to me on Monday - watch this space
LATER: No follow up from Peter as he said he would tho.
LATER: Still no email from Webb as he assured me he would send.
Looks like he is as much of a bullshitter as the rest.